How Can We Help Gay Rights?

The election is over and the progress our country has – and has not – made is evident in the numbers.

We, as a nation, elected a black man. We, as voters, screamed our disappointment in the current administration. We organized and mobilized and donated our time. We got involved and became informed, and participated in the democratic process in droves.

And we, as Americans, voted to ban gay marriage in three states.

Worse than that. We voted to deny rights to same-sex couples in states where “gay marriage” is already illegal. Because apparently, in places like Florida, not allowing gay marriage is just not enough. We need to strip away their rights and their dignity until it is painfully clear that They are not Like Us.

There can be no more doubt that our nation has elected its next form of legal discrimination. We’ve moved on from simple racial bigotry and picked up the morally indignant banner of homophobia.

How can this be? How can we so easily exchange one form of hatred for another? Are we completely incapable of embracing the idea of tolerance in its entirety?

We’re better than this.

I have proof now that we are capable of growing up as a society. I have seen with my own eyes that tolerance and acceptance and equality can take root in even the most unlikely of fields. It is possible to push past prejudice.

But can we do it in less than 50 years?

And where do we start?

I keep looking back to the Civil Rights movement of the 60s for some kind of answers or guidance. It took sacrifice from the people who were being oppressed, as well as the people who were not. White people who could afford to look the other way had to be willing to stand up and say “No!” It wasn’t enough for blacks to push into white society and real equality. Someone had to be on the other side helping to pull them along.

I presume it will take that same kind of selfless sacrifice now from straight people. Straight men and women, whether they’re married or single, who insist that their rights are not threatened by extending them to gay men and women.

This is a civil rights issue. This is just as deplorable as segregation and church bombings and police fire hoses turned on children in the South. This? Must. End.

And if there’s anything I’ve learned from the Obama campaign, it’s that we can make a difference.

I’m just looking for the first step…

The Rainbow Flag - Picture by DBKing

The Rainbow Flag - Picture by DBKing

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  1. I said my peace on my post tonight as well.

    I’m sick to my stomach over the deplorable actions of so many.

    We MUST do SOMETHING. EVERYthing.

  2. Noone has every given a real reason for being anti-gay-marriage.

    Luckily any lawyer worth two nickles can beat it. It’s already been ruled unconstitutional on a federal level because it violates the 14th Amendment (Guaranteeing Equal Protection and Due Process under the law.)

    I hate seeing states building discrimination into the state’s constitutions.

    Hopefully the Wake-Up call Americans got on November 4th will reverberate far and wide.

  3. Sandi says:

    Thank you.
    Your lesbian lurker friend,
    Sandi

  4. Honeybell says:

    I simply don’t understand. I cannot imagine being told I cannot marry the person I love.

  5. just beth says:

    I am totally with you on this. I was so ecstatic when we elected Obama. SO ecstatic. And came crashing down when I saw the bans on gay rights. It’s deplorable, and our next mission. We can’t stop the momentum. We have another fight to win.

    xo

    b.

  6. X-tians think that having two men or two women marry somehow devalues their marriage. The other, very weak, argument, is that it will lead to polygamy, child molestation, etc.

    if someone is lucky enough to find love in this world, no-one should be allowed to stand in your way.

    Just for the record. My other half and I aren’t married. By choice. I don’t feel it’s right for us to marry when it’s a privilege that isn’t available to all Americans.

    Besides. Her overly catholic mom births twinkies whenever she thinks of her daughter “living in sin.” ;-)

  7. Dana says:

    Let me say this …

    One of the great things about this country is that many decisions are left up to state government. Part of the reason we have states is so that people can find different laws – different policies – in different parts of the country. They can choose to live where the laws most closely resemble their own moral values. That is how it should be – we should continue to have choice in that manner.

  8. Dana –

    But should people be allowed to force their beliefs on people who already live somewhere? Should I be forced to relocate because a bunch of brain-dead-red-necks decided to pass an idiotic law that restricts my freedom? Should I be forced to pull my kids out of school for someone else’s beliefs?

    I think not.

  9. Dana says:

    ShredderFeeder -

    Wouldn’t it be fair to say this argument is valid no matter which side of the issue you stand on?

  10. Dana –

    Actually no, it’s not. Restriction of freedom is very different than allowing freedom.

    I would never vote to restrict someone else’s freedom. It’s none of my business what goes on in someone else’s bedroom.

    Against gay-marriage? Don’t have one. But don’t tell other people who they are and are not allowed to have feelings for.

  11. Kris says:

    Unfortunately people are excited to participate in the “democratic process” and especially when things turn out the way they wanted. An unfortunate side effect of this process is that majority rules and being such often things don’t turn out the way people would like them to have. That being said, it seems people only want to participate in the democracy when they can get what they want. Oddly enough, if you look at the numbers closely, the majority of the demographic who voted for Obama also voted against Prop 8. I think democracy is highly overrated.

    K.

  12. Dana says:

    We see this quite differently. In my world, marriage is a not a “right” – gay or straight. I respect your opinion, just have a difficult time with the “brain-dead-red-necks” generalization and wonder how statements like that help the situation.

    For the record, I’m actually PRO gay marriage – I just think it’s important that we look for commonalities in the position rather than name calling and focusing on the differences. It is those very behaviors which cause this country to divide and stand still rather than move forward.

  13. Kay says:

    I know, it’s pathetic. Here in Arkansas they passed it to where a single person or unmarried couples (meaning same sex couples) to adopt. Some people are never going to get married, single parents are doing it all the time naturally why do they feel they have a right to blanket the prejudice on them because of their marital status or lack of? There are so many children they will be stuck in the system until they are adults never knowing a loving home at all! Why limit these kids anymore than they already are?
    Baffles the mind when you think about it, especially since church and state are SUPPOSED to be separate and these laws are clearly biased on religion and nothing else!

  14. Sybil Law says:

    I really don’t get it at all, either. It’s asinine.
    And the crazies will be here soon, defending their gay bashing! Assholes.

  15. Kay says:

    I mean that they CAN NOT adopt! Sheesh I need to proof read! :)

  16. You are right – name-calling doesn’t help.

    “Marriage” per se may not be a right. However everyone has the right to be treated equally and without exception EVERY move to ban or restrict gay marriage is an infringement on that rights.

  17. Dustin says:

    Thanks for the wonderful post. One of the most sad things about Prop 8, is that it was minorities who tipped the scales in favor. A sad day when the minorities are voting to take rights away from others, when it wasn’t too long ago people didn’t want to give them certain rights. When they take the rights away from gays, where do they think people will turn to next?

  18. Yep, so I way overcommented on Avitable’s post on this and then wrote a chapter on my blog, so all I am going to say is Amen sister.

    However, as someone pointed out above, it was Obama people that voted in Prop. 8 in California. 70 percent of black voters voted in favor of a ban as well as the majority of Latino voters there. At a time to celebrate the first black president, these voting groups chose to discriminate against another minority group. It’s very sad.

    And, for the record, Obama himself says a marriage is between one man and one woman and the DEMOCRAT Senate majority Leader Harry Reid not only supports a ban, but voted for the Defense of Marriage act.

    Sad. Although I didn’t vote for Obama because I don’t agree with his stand on the issues, I thought it was inspiring that we have an African American man for president.

    But at what cost?

    One step forward…and two steps back.

  19. Dustin says:

    Marriage is a right, because the constitution tells as all we have the rights to freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness :)

    Do you have the right to buy a house wherever you want? Buy whatever car you want? I’d say yeah, though there are some laws and restrictions. The same goes for marriage. So imagine someone saying, oh I’m sorry because you’re a woman, you can’t buy this kind of car, you have to choose from these. Oh I’m sorry, because you have kids, well you have to live in those houses over there. Let’s face it, being gay is the one thing our society still allows us to legally discriminate against as well as vote on.

    As for Obama, he and Biden both state they think marriage is between a man and a woman. Let’s be honest, no one will be elected president if they say otherwise for awhile. However they also both came out and said Prop 8 was wrong and they would vote against it. That is the difference of having a belief is something, but not making everyone else live by your beliefs.

  20. My main objection is actually to constitutionalizing such moronic language.

    It’s like, thousands of years from now people will unearth these documents and come to the realization that early 21st century America was completely populated with Morons.

  21. This week I was so proud to be an American and so ashamed to be a Californian. I don’t understand the intolerance. It makes me so angry.

  22. Americans just don’t seem to be happy unless there is hate in the air.

    It’s sad really.

    November 4th was a great step forward.

    First step in a LONG journey.

  23. Courtney says:

    This blatant discrimination just breaks my heart. I posted today about how this election has been bittersweet. We made such great strides in electing a black president… and then took those steps right back in denying people the right to love each other. It is WRONG and nobody can convince me otherwise. I think I may look around and see if there anywhere that I can volunteer or do anything to help… same-sex couples need to have the same rights as everyone else. They are us. They are the same.

  24. thedemigod says:

    Thank you.

    This made me cry.

    Thank you so much.

  25. Selma says:

    If marriage were defined as a social contract between two individuals that unites their lives legally, economically and emotionally there would be no legitimate reason to oppose gay marriage. I think any opposition stems from fear. Of what, I can’t tell you.

    One day, I’m certain things will change. Until then we continue to fight. Great post, Britt.

  26. ~jtm says:

    Hi Britt… I wrote about this on my blog a bit ago, I am now the new president of our local chapter of PFLAG (I have a gay teen). So my suggestion is seek out your local chapter… as far as I know we are the only straight organization to assist and advocate for the LGBT community. They have a program called Straight for Equality (you can google PFLAG National website for more information)

  27. only things i can think of are taking the time to organize letter writing campaigns and making the effort to physically stand at every rally we can organize to show. words are simply not enough. those of us who want gay marriages to be recognized as legal unions need to show up.

    i never have before. all i do is agree online and talk about the outrageous claims close minded people make. the most i have done is have a serious conversation with my southern baptist boss where i told him in no uncertain terms that i fully support gay marriage (and didn’t get fired!). i need to do more. and i will.

    the insanity has got to stop.

  28. I just wanted to throw up when I saw that 2 was going to get the go ahead.

  29. Robin says:

    We have to remember that it hasn’t even been 50 years since the civil rights movement – a movement that didn’t really include gays and lesbians – they had to start their own movement in order to be heard. And to me, electing a black president doesn’t end the civil rights movement, unlike some of the comments I have heard from people this past week – it only intensifies it.

    My wish is that both movements come together and work as one to benefit all, because both groups inherently want the same thing – equal rights for all involved. But there is so much in-fighting between both movements that I doubt that will happen in the near future.

    In 100 years, I will feel better about the way this country is heading. After hearing about the gay marriage rulings, now I am not so sure….

  30. Robin says:

    The whole thing makes me really sad because at the end of the day, it’s wasted energy.

  31. Musing says:

    Is there a Heterosexuals for Gay Marriage group I can join? I’d like our country to know that straight people are for equal rights, too.

    And a bit of hope…eight years ago 61% of California voters wanted to ban gay marriage. In this election 52% were for the ban. At least the numbers are moving in the right direction.

    Also, polls showed young voters are overwhelmingly for gay marriage. So, in time, things will change.

    Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-2008election-prop8prop22,0,5619131.htmlstory

  32. SciFi Dad says:

    The more I look at what happened on Tuesday, the more I wonder if the Republican apologists (the ones who are saying Palin cost them the win, or that McCain wasn’t the right candidate) are right. I can’t shake the feeling that if Obama weren’t running against the pair he was running against, he wouldn’t have won (or at least not so easily).

    I’m sorry to say it, but discrimination runs deep in the U.S. One election isn’t going to fix it.

    The thing that kills me about Prop 8 and the like is that it takes away rights… Americans are all about “their” rights. I don’t get it.

  33. Faiqa says:

    I’ve been kicking myself in the ass for not writing a post about THIS last week. I meant to… but I guess time got away from me.

  34. suze says:

    I just don’t understand how two women or two men loving each other and wanting to make a public committment to one another by marriage is a threat to anyone else. I honestly don’t see the harm. But keeping those two people from being able to be married – I see all sorts of harm there.

    Well written Britt.

  35. Miss Britt says:

    A Whole Lot of Nothing: well at least that’s ONE other Floridian!

    ShredderFeeder: I’ve actually heard quite a few people argue that it’s a state’s rights issue.

    What I haven’t heard is a good reason for STATES to ban it.

    Sandi: you’re welcome. I promise we’ll do more.

    zenmom: thanks for throwing in your support.

    Honeybell: as a white, straight woman, I’m incredibly lucky to be able to forget about discrimination for the most part in my own life. So, yeah, I don’t get it either.

    just beth: absolutely – we can’t sit and “gloat” or think we’ve done anything yet.

    ShredderFeeder: I’m “X-tian”. And Catholic. And I don’t think that at all.

    Dana: I understand state’s rights. But like I said to an earlier commenter, I don’t understand a state wanting to ban gay marriage.

    And some things? Are supposed to be universal. Like, say, making slavery illegal everywhere.

    Discrimination is not a state’s rights issue. I think that’s what people aren’t seeing because they’re getting tangled up in some “morality” clause. This isn’t a value argument, you know?

    Kris: I still agree with democracy – and it tells us a lot about who needs to be talked to.

    Before you can change the laws, you have to change people’s hearts and minds.

    Kay: our adoption policies are fucked.

    Sybil Law: well, let’s hope not.

    Dustin: I agree – that is APPALLING, and I think definitely a case of not being able to see clearly.

    Scout’s Honor: one of the first things I thought was “how could someone vote Obama AND vote against gay marriage?” It makes no sense to me at all.

    Dustin: marriage is a right we extend to straight people. Period. It should, therefore, be extended to homosexuals as well. Period.

    Twenty Four At Heart: I’m with you, as a new Floridian I questioned what the hell I’d brought my kids into.

    Courtney: I’m with you – definitely looking for volunteer opportunities or something. And thank you!!!

    thedemigod: you’re welcome. I’m sorry it’s not more.

    Selma: I do have hope now that that change is possible.

    ~jtm: thank you so much for the suggestion!!!!! Really – so appreciative of a concrete action!! Thanks!!

    hello haha narf: agreed. We need to find out where to stand. In big groups. Big. Loud. Groups.

    Blondefabulous: me too – and it wasn’t even close.

    Robin: it’s not wasted energy. It’s not. And you bring up excellent points that we need to act on.

    Musing: I guess progress is SOMETHING. And I’m looking for heterosexual organizations and will let you know what I find! Although, I bet you could google local chapters.

    SciFi Dad: nothing is fixed with one election. But we have fixed an awful lot in this country over our history.

    Faiqa: me too.

    suze: and more than that, I see lots and lots of benefit of encouraging more relationships with accountability.

  36. RW says:

    Never stop pushing, but in the meantime take a lesson from the civil rights movement; Create gay/lesbian-owned insurance companies. Gay/lesbian-owned banks (an association of businesspeople can form up a bank, you know). Have a resource that lists churches, denominations or religious societies that will perform marriage ceremonies. Use the inter-connected network already formed and forming amongst gay/lesbian people to vet candidates – I think this already exists.
    Instead of waiting for approval to be – BE. Do it. be the change you want to see. Organize your team.

  37. avitable says:

    The real question is, how does this affect Blog Husbands and Work Husbands?

  38. RW says:

    Side note: The opponents of gay marriage in California used a recording of a quote by Obama about what he felt constitutes legal “marriage” in robo-calls. Something like 70% of black voters – per exit polls – voted against gay marriage, many because they assumed this was Obama’s position. There is also a traditional antipathy in the black community towards gays.

    But I don’t think there are enough dyed-in-the-wool liberals in the country to total the number of votes Obama got. Tons of the people who voted for him – very non-intellectually – voted real life; their wallets.

  39. Finn says:

    We must never stop fighting. We have to stand with our gay friends and family members and say that we will not accept discrimmination.

    What we need is a revolution.

  40. whall says:

    Not only that, but think of the economic stimulus! Gays almost always make a ton more money than the non-gays, and they’re so stylish and extravagant! Their weddings alone would push the GDP so high, whatever glass ceiling is there would fabulously be shattered!

  41. NYCWD says:

    While I never thought I’d say this…

    Exactly what RW said.

    I know… end of times… end of times…

  42. RW says:

    Then I obviously must be WRONG!

    DAMNit.

  43. My stance has pretty much stated but I figured I’d go ahead and say : I agree.

    LOL @ Whall

  44. Jer says:

    As a lesbian, it sickened me to hear about the passing of Prop 8. So it stands to reason or so it seems, that someone else can dictate my happiness to me? And why is that? As far as the traditional antipathy in the black community about gays, what a load of horseshit covers their eyes. The reality of it is that there are many black gay and lesbians, they just “don’t talk about it”, especially if you’re a black man. (this leads to all sorts of other problems, I won’t go into here).

    Gays on the whole, make more money and spend more money than the majority of heterosexuals. And I do believe that it’s because we don’t want people to know as “that gay advertising person”, we want to be know as a “hard worker”, “a kind soul”, “a caring, honest, productive member of society who doesn’t prey on small children and in fact would be a WONDERFUL parent to a child, if only he/she was allowed to adopt.”

    You know what’s screwed up? The same people will take our money, will cater to us in cruise lines, cars, entertainment, but oh hell, when those crazy gays want to marry, they put a stop to it.

    To hell with them. So let’s not let gays marry and let’s make divorce ILLEGAL!

    Oh and the Mormons who voted on this…you bastards got a lot of room to talk.

  45. Dawn says:

    It’s very strange… here in CT, such an uptight, reserved state, they passed a law last month that allowed gay marriage, but in CA, a much more laissez-faire state, they ban it? WTF?

    Live and let live…

  46. Kimberly says:

    Posts like these are the first steps, I think. I was so sad when I heard prop 8 passed. I can’t even imagine telling people whose blood runs just as red as mine that they can’t have the same rights I have.

    Who the FUCK do people think they are?

  47. Donna says:

    You know, it may be gay marriage this time but there is always going to be an issue. It’s not just America, either. I get so sick of hearing that. Check history, check current events. Unfortunately it seems to be human nature to hate people who are different than you. One of the most blatant to me is Ireland – same nationality, same race for the most part, yet they kill each other. How about the Serbs and Bosnia? There are violent political revolutions going on all over the world. Change has to come from within, not because its mandated.
    Sorry for long post.

  48. Erin says:

    My problem with the whole “moral” issue of banning gay marriage is that it is completely hypocritical. The whole “The bible says it’s wrong” just isn’t a valid enough argument for me, especially when it comes from the mouths of people who break most if not all of the ten commandments.

    I think that a lot of the problem is also in (oh god this is a terrible word for it) exposure. People tend to shun what they do not know and people tend to avoid places that they think they will be shunned. It’s a lot easier to judge something you don’t have to face on a daily basis.

    I think that, in time, things will change. It sounds bad and stereotypical, but has anybody looked at the percentage of voters based on their ages? I think that is far more telling than looking at numbers based on race–especially if you are going to compare the number of people who voted for Obama and against black marriage. And I’ll stop here because, um, I have my own blog that I could write all of this on :)

  49. Clown says:

    I’m not sure if you watch The Daily Show often, but within the last week they showed a clip of a woman talking about gay rights issues. She would pull the normal “I think homosexuals are equal and some of my best friends are gay. I just do not think they should be allowed to marry.”

    After each snippet, the show would pause her video and Stewart would inform her “Your lesbian friends hate you.” and “Your gay friends can’t stand you and talk about how horrible you are.”

    Cool story stupid bitch, I know.
    I found it funny at least. :)

  50. B.E. Earl says:

    I may be wrong, but I kinda blame Obama himself for this. I seem to remember in one of the debates him saying that he was against gay marriage, but he was for enabling rights for same-sex unions. That could have been something that caused people to vote FOR him and FOR Prop 8. I dunno.

    But he may not have done enough to push this part of his agenda. If that’s the case, then he deserves at least part of the blame.

  51. Ren says:

    One of the things that concerns me is that the passage of Prop 8 in CA seems like it makes it that much more likely that we’ll see similar proposals in many other states, and I expect most of them will pass. Ugh.

    However, I do feel the need to ask if everyone here that is so supportive of gay marriage (myself included) feels the same about (fully consensual) polygamy? If not, why not?

  52. LKM says:

    Just when I think we are finally headed in the right direction with this, a vote comes out to prove me wrong. As a heterosexual woman who who has many gay friends, who has participated in a lesbian marriage ceremony as a maid of honor, I am deeply saddened to see this. I have also watched my church waffle on this issue and that disturbs me. I was born in Vermont where you could mention the word lesbian in conversation without having to defend yourself. I am now living in Tennessee in an area where my boss would not be happy if he knew I was commenting favorably on this subject. I guess I have a lot of opportunity for educating folks around here.

  53. Erin says:

    Against GAY marriage! Dammit! Now I’m totally the one who needs to proofread!

  54. Robyn says:

    What I don’t get is how people who have GLBT friends and relatives voted to eliminate their rights. How could people claim to love their gay friends or lesbian daughter and then actively vote Yes on Prop 8. And for anyone who doesn’t know any people…. I assure you that you interract with gay folks. They just choose tobe closeted to you since they can see your hate.

    I also wrote about this over at http://www.whosthebossblog.com Prop 8 really has nothing to do with marriage. It is a civil rights issue, end of story. Proponents of the “protection of marriage” are really voting against homosexuality. Maybe out of fear, ignorance, or religious conviction.

  55. Jennifer A says:

    This is one time I agree with you.

  56. Dustin says:

    Something I have stressed on many web boards and even my own blog, is basically the hypocrisy of these bans. It’s under the guise of “protecting the sanctity of marriage” which basically as we all know equates to peoples religious views on marriage. However, nobody seems to be introducing bill or laws to protect marriage from anything but the gays, and let’s face it, straight people are doing a great job of defiling marriage on their own.

    What we need to do is push our congressmen and senators to introduce laws banning divorce, making marriage waiting periods, etc. I made a whole post today at http://www.thatguysblog.com about it. It will make people giggle, but at the same time I’m serious. If laws like these were introduced or put to a vote, I bet a lot of Americans would wake the hell up and realize how much fun it really isn’t voting to take away rights, especially when they’ll affect them!

  57. Sarah says:

    I am still royally pissed at my state. Royally.

    You let me know the first step and I will be there with bells not.

    Well maybe not bells, but you get the idea.

    I just can’t believe that we can still be so intolerant of people, still so scared of how it will affect us. I can’t believe that as a country we just turned the other cheek like everything was okay.

    The fact that people willingly said that it’s okay to hate a people for who they fall in love with disturbs me. A person I was starting to really like and form a relationship with voted yes on prop 8. It was over so fast I don’t think he had time to blink.

    We just need to get over our prejudices and realize that this is just simply NOT OK.

  58. somebody says:

    that flag makes me sick to my stomach!!

    not because what its suppose to stand for but because of the way the American flag was defiled.

    go ahead and display ur support for gay rights, but leave the AMERICAN FLAG and what it stands for alone

  59. Talon says:

    Oh for fuckssake, “somebody” number sixty above me.

    It obviously ISN’T the American flag, you MORON. It hasn’t been DEFILED. Good god…*rolls eyes.

  60. Miss Britt says:

    RW: that’s great advice for gays and lesbians. Now, tell me more about what I can do as a straight person.

    avitable: are you talking about only being gay on the Internet? Or at work? I’m confused.

    Finn: yep, a revolution. How does one start one of those?

    whall: EXACTLY!

    NYCWD& RW: he he he he

    Sheila (Charm School Reject): and YOU aren’t “dyed in the wool liberal” by a long shot. How do you get your Republican brethren on board, sister?

    Jer: the whole thing is screwed up.

    Dawn: maybe we should all move to CT

    Kimberly: and that’s the thing. Forget about the “love” part – it’s about RIGHTS.

    Donna: it does seem to be, sadly, part of the human condition.

    Dejoni: unfortunately, I’m just talking to the converted here

    Erin: that’s why I was so surprised about California. I mean, is there a state with more exposure than them??

    Clown: it is funny – and points out the irony. Actually, I think I’ve seen that clip.

    B.E. Earl: I was really disappointed he didn’t come out stronger on this, too. And surprised after reading a talk he gave about gay rights at a mostly black southern church a few months ago.

    Ren: I would say no for practical reasons. The purpose of having a legal spouse as far as CIVIL reasons go is to identify one person with spousal rights – survivor benefits, medical decisions, right to insurance coverage, etc. It’s not practical to extend those same rights to 5 people where they were designed for 1.

    LKM: and I hope you do just that.

    Robyn: I’m with you – love and mush and all that aside – I don’t see how it passed from a LEGAL, civil RIGHTS perspective.

    Jennifer A: wow, just once, eh?

    Dustin: yeah, maybe they should ban adultery first.

    Sarah: wow, good for you for taking a personal stand in your own life.

    somebody: you know, I actually thought about that.

    But A) I think it makes the point pretty clearly

    and B) The United States Government does not have exclusive right to stars and stripes. That flag in no way defiles the flag of this country.

    Talon: exactly.

  61. u know says:

    i’m amazed at the majority of you commenting here. You’re so thrilled about this momentous election and the prgress it demonstrates, and at the same time being slanderous toward the system that brought us this change. The system was created so that we, the people, are able to share and represent our beliefs, and the minute it doesn’t align with your specific ideals you respond in droves. let’s embrace the process for what it is and stop demonstrating such hypocrisy!

  62. avitable says:

    U know, the system was created to support the ideals that the country was based on; mainly, that all men are created equal. It was also designed to let people govern themselves and only have the government step in when necessary. Neither of those ideals support the discriminatory policy of prohibiting two consenting adults who love each other from getting the same rights as two other consenting adults.

    You probably think that slavery wasn’t a bad idea because, hey, “we, the people” had some beliefs and didn’t want slavery to be abolished.

  63. u know says:

    beautiful avitable. I must’ve really struck a chord. I believe u to be an especially intelligent human. (i’ll take miss britt’s word for it) however, you made an immediate extension of logic to slavery! I cannot respect the fact that u would extend the ideals of gay marriage to the basic liberties ambraced in freedom from the opression of slavery. gays already have rights as a couple in many places. this is a matter of extending the current definition of marriage to include same sex couples. you are free to express your opinion sir, but please give it some thought before you make assumptions about me. thank you.

  64. avitable says:

    This is actually removing the rights of any couple who chooses not to be married (not just gay couples, but heterosexual couples) to get hospital visits, qualify for certain employment benefits, etc. It’s making them second-class citizens, which is precisely what slavery is. Doesn’t seem like that’s a very big step to take. It was my impression from Britt that you were an intelligent person, too, so this type of close-minded stance that smacks of hatred, discrimination and homophobia surprises me.

  65. Stephanie says:

    I think a big part of why this passed had to do with the “what about the children?” ads that were played constantly out here. So many parents, even if they aren’t against gay marriage as such, were afraid their kids would be taught about it at school.

    I figure my kids will probably know at least of the concept long before the schools would be teaching any such thing. Not a big deal. Homosexuality is not something you catch or whatever it is people fear when you talk about not wanting kids to learn about it.

    Not to mention the ads probably had lots of kids asking their parents what gay marriage is! :P

    I am glad that we’re making progress. I think Prop 8 would have failed without all the out of state funding, and even with that it just barely passed. We’ll get there, and I don’t think it will be too many more years.

  66. Miss Britt says:

    u know: the majority of the commenting here has absolutely nothing to do with slandering the system.

    “The system was created so that we, the people, are able to share and represent our beliefs”

    THAT’s what this post is about. The fact that this “vote” somehow reflects our beliefs in this country is a PROBLEM. And one that needs to be fought against.

    avitable: telling people they support slavery does nothing to further this discussion.

    u know: I’m not sure how familiar you are with these propositions since they weren’t on your state’s ballots – but I will tell you that here in Florida it wasn’t about defining “marriage”.

    It was about ensuring that “civil unions” were not afforded the same rights as heterosexual marriages. Gay marriage is already illegal in Florida – but this vote actually REMOVED rights that gay couples previously had.

    avitable: can I not take a night off the Internet without you getting in a comment fight on my blog? :-P

    Stephanie: I showed my son my ballot and explained my vote to him. I won’t pretend it’s easy to talk to your kids about “what gay is” because it conflicts with a lot of the assumptions you make about how their lives will turn out – but it’s a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

  67. Bravo, my darlin’. Bravo.

  68. flutter says:

    I suppose it would help to have at least one person in government who was pro gay marriage. As it stands, NO ONE in this election was.

    When we realize that allowing gay people to marry will do no more harm than straight people do to marriage every day…progress will be made.

    When we realize that gay people are people, not a cause, not a cross to bear, not some perversion of nature….progress will be made.

    When we FINALLY strip away all of the bullshit we put on people, our expectations of how they are to act given their religion, their race, their sexual orientation, their gender, their age, or their political affiliations we will make some progress.

    But not a moment before. We all have to be the change we wish to see.

  69. Anonymous says:

    Why do you need to be married to be happy? Isn’t it really all about getting the benefits afforded to married couples?
    Even people who call themselves liberals dislike the way they see gays and lesbians ACT!

  70. Talon says:

    Anonymous…how clever.

    I dislike the way KKK members act, but I’ll fight to the death their right to live the way they feel they’re born to.

    I hate the way you’re speaking right now, but I’ll fight anyone who says you don’t have the right to speak your mind.

    Now go sit in the corner and fucking think about that for awhile.

  71. Ren says:

    The “facts” referenced in that Frank Turek column are questionable at best:

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2007/09/sam_brownback_and_gay_marriage_1.html

    As far as disliking the way gays and lesbians act, I don’t know if you’re referring to something specific, but there are certainly acts by “straights” that are disliked as well.

  72. martymankins says:

    Avitable stated a fact that none of these supporters against same-sex marriage mention and that’s how affected the rights of un-married heterosexual couples are when a state amends their constitution. Not all amendments fall under this, but Utah and many other states do when they include “and any other legal means that extends rights”. My now-wife and I actually had legal documents drawn up right after that amendment got put into place here in Utah to ensure that if something were to happen to either of us, the other would have a legal power of attorney to make legal decisions. Now that we are married, we are covered, but at the time, we were very content to just live together, but didn’t want any of the legal discrimination to affect our lives. We also knew an elderly couple that were not married (for various benefit reasons) that did the same thing.

    Marriage is civil and should be extended to every tax-paying adult. Any removal of rights, when put to the vote of the people, is wrong.

  73. equality4all says:

    I am a heterosexual and i am sickened by all of this hate and segregation! i can only wish I will love someone enough to marry them, i find it intolerable for someone to deprive another to marry for any reason! there is absolutely no difference from me or any gay American, we bleed, we feel, we love, we hate, we breathe. when Africans Americans we given their overly due rights, that should have been the end of any discrepancy toward civil rights!
    it is embarrassing that this is even an issue! i recently found out my best friend could not donate blood, why? he has had sexual intercourse with a man and he is also a man! this is appalling! sex with a man or a woman makes you vulnerable to the SAME “high risk behavior”, they test the blood for HIV/AIDS, so why in the world would banning gay men from donating blood be in the least necessary?!?!
    America prides itself on “freedom for all” this is utter bull shit! of all Americans had equal rights I this would not be an issue, in 30 years from now, anti-gay rights Americans will be embarrassed, just like the anti-African American rights Americans were!
    I only wish their was more that I could do! I am not stopping here though!

  74. Debra says:

    I am sooooooglaaaaaaad that Prop 2 and prop 8 and Arizona (whatever prop it was) passed with flying colors! “WE”, the people, do not want gay marriage in America! Pure and simple. that’s not hate, that’s not being intolerant, it is simply our God-given convictions that marriage is between one man and one woman for life!

  75. Talon says:

    Debra…dear…we do not live in a theoacracy. The founding fathers were pretty clear on that.

    There is no such thing as a god given conviction that a marriage is between one man and one woman for life.

    If there was, there would be no such thing as divorce in marriages in a church.

    Sorry. Better brush up a bit on your history, your theology and what intolerant means.

    WE the people declared that all men are created equal. ALL MEN. ALL MANKIND. Not just the straight ones. You don’t get to live in a nation that is founded on freedom and equality and then tell a certain group of people, “Oh everyone is equal. But not you. God hates you faggots.”

    And finally…only very recently has marriage been a religious institution. Frankly gay marriage is a much nicer prospect than the origin of the “one man and one woman” arrangement. Marriage was about man owning property. The woman.

    Get over yourself. Please.

  76. Debra says:

    Talon:

    I am always amazed when dumb people try to sound intelligent. First, this is a Democracy, which means the people determines the direction of the Country. We, the people, determined the Constitution on the federal level and on the State level.

    Concerning Prop 8 & Prop 2, the people of those respective States determined that they did not want gay marriage, pure and simple!

    It was a “fair and free” election, with both sides having the freedom to voice their “God-given” right of free speech and thought. Again, the people spoke loud and clear: “WE Do Not Want Gay Marriage!”

    Now, deal with it. Accept it. For the record, marriage was instituted by Almighty God Himself in the Garden of Eden, not the State. Government was instituted by Almighty God as an expression of His Soverein Rule in the Universe. If you need help with that one, try reading Romans 13, and there you will clearly see my point.

    Yes, it is our God-given convictions that determine our world view. I make decisions based on my Judeo-Christian Wolrd View, not by my fellow man. If you are not a Christian, then your World View comes from Secular Humanism! Every person has a world view, whether religiously based or not!

    Therefore, you must go back and do some studying before trying to deal with an intelligent person! Have a great day!

    Debra

    PS. As a “professing” Christian, Miss Britt would believe that marriage is God’s idea, and not man’s.

  77. Miss Britt says:

    I believe that the RELIGIOUS institution of marriage is just that.

    I also believe we let atheists get married in courthouses with absolutely no mention of God. All the time. That’s a CIVIL contract.

    You know. Unto Caesar and all that…

  78. Talon says:

    *snorts*

    First, educate yourself on the concept of “separation of church and state.”

    And while you’re at it, remind yourself that not everyone on this planet…hell, not even the majority of people on this planet are christian and believe in “your” god.

    While you’re at it, also check out “prohibition” and “slavery”.

    If you consider yourself an intelligent person, I won’t try to dissuade you from your delusion. It is futile to argue with the incompetent and mentally deficient, especially about their tightly held mythologies.

    If marriage was instituted by god in the garden of eden…which…is just a really funny thing to hear from a supposedly sane, intelligent adult, then tell me why marriage pre-dates christanity?

    Oh wait. You can’t. You probably believe that NOTHING predates christianity, because nothing can predate god who created everything…*yawn*.

    Finally, my views are my own, not Miss Britt’s. Just as your views are welcome to be aired here, so are mine, whether they jive with her personal convictions or not.

    P.S. I love how you automatically dismiss any thought of any other religions that I might adhere to if I am not christian and jump right to secular humanism.

    Very telling.

  79. Faiqa says:

    ” If you are not a Christian, then your World View comes from Secular Humanism..”

    No, really, please continue to ramble and don’t let the facts discourage you from discounting nearly 3/4 of the world’s theologies, and the nearly 15 million citizens of the United States who practice organized religions outside of (and mostly older than) Christianity.

  80. Debra says:

    Talon:

    You have actually made my point! Marriage does pre-dates Christianity because Almighty God was the one who instituted this sacred and holy institution that we call marriage.

    HE made it abundantly clear that marriage was/is a “Covenant” ( not a contract) between one man and one woman for life! Even Elton John recently stated that his relationship is not a marriage, but a “Civil Union”.

    He also strongly suggested that the gay community stop trying to shove marriage down the throat of society as it will never work! You find his comments in the USA TODAY Paper on last week.

    The Lord Jesus affirmed the “Male -Female” relationship in marriage when He spoke these words from the gospel of Matthew:

    “Have you not read (He’s quoting the O.T.) that He who made them at the beginning made them Male and Female, and said, For this reason a “Man” shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his “Wife” (not husband), and the “Two” shall become “One” Flesh?

    So then they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what “God” has “Joined Together”, let not “Man” separate.” (Matthew 19:4-6)

    There is no wiggle room for the gay community to dismiss what our Lord clearly is saying! So, if you want to know what Jesus would do, He would embrace marriage as God intended, between one man and one woman for life! HE would then condemn the practice of the “Abomination” of Sodomy which God says He hates! Now, deal with that TRuth!

  81. Talon says:

    Debra: And you’ve proved my point admirably.

    Thank you.

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